May 15, 2018
In episode 4 I talk with Marty Ramseck about using the Predictive Index Assessment to make better hiring decisions and enhance communication among sales teams.
Marty has cultivated 30 years of experience in hands-on sales management and double-digit growth in every one of his ventures. He has worked for companies such as Vintage Senior Living, LivHOME, Sunrise Senior Living, CORT, and Cigna.
In order to deliver record-breaking sales in highly competitive fields, Marty had to have an advantage over others in the industry. He found that advantage through an exceptionally strong match in recruiting, training and individual coaching using the Predictive Index.
Marty’s primary focus is on partnering with Senior Leaders to build effective teams and design innovative solutions to organizational issues. In 2016 Marty joined PI Midlantic as a Senior Consultant with a focus on California to help companies and sales professionals to reach exceptional results.
Marty earned a Bachelor of Arts degree in Psychology from the University of Dayton. He lives in Southern California with his wife Nancy of 34 years.
Marty's contact information is:
When you reach out to Marty, be sure and mention the podcast for a complimentary Predictive Index Assessment, a $200 value.
Please visit our website www.thebusinessofbusinesspodcat.com, www.seniorlivingsalesandmarketing.com, and to find out more about Roy Barkers consulting and advisory services visit www.roybarker.com or email email@example.com
See full transcript below.
Roy Barker: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to episode four of the Senior Living Sales & Marketing Podcast. Just as a reminder, you can find us on iTunes, Stitcher, or Google Play.
Please download and rate the podcast to make it easier for others to find. You can also sign up for our newsletter at www.seniorlivingsalesandmarketing.com. Also, check out our sister podcast at the [00:00:30] businessofbusinesspodcast.com.
Today, I want to welcome Marty Ramseck with PI Midlantic to the show. We did another show for the Business of Business Podcast, talking about the predictive index and how it relates to turn-over in general.
As me and Marty talked further, I felt like it would be good to do an episode that was focused strictly [00:01:00] on the Senior Living Sales & Marketing teams. Marty has a very extensive background in senior living and in sales.
I think that the sales process ... That's one reason why I started this podcast is that, the sales and marketing process has become a much more important function in the senior living industry. Now more than ever, with the [00:01:30] economic environment with the affordability issues, with the competition that's coming online. Both other senior living providers and at-home care.
It's more important now that when we do capture lead, that we're able to do everything that we can do to possibly close that. I'm not talking about being a used care salesman. My philosophy is always building relationships.
But, [00:02:00] I think we have to hire the right people that aren't used car salesmen. That know how to build relationships with prospects in order to increase our occupancy. Having said all that, Marty, welcome back. I appreciate you taking time out of your day to talk to me again.
Marty Ramseck: Thanks Roy, great to be here.
Roy Barker: If you don't mind, why don't you just tell the audience just a little bit about your senior living history and just a little bit about the predictive [00:02:30] index. As well as, PI Midlantic.
Marty Ramseck: My senior living history goes back to 2002, where I was the VP of Sales for Center of Senior Living. Which was at that time nationwide, but now it's an international company. Many Senior Livings not only in America but throughout in Europe and Canada.
Then I spent about ten years [00:03:00] with a company called LivHOME where we did in-home care, versus assisted living care. But we did in-home care, custodial care for seniors. Then two years at Vintage Senior Living. Again, a high-end senior living on the west coast, California and Washington.
So over that period of time, I have about 15 years in the senior living industry. Experiencing both in-home and assisted living care.
A little bit [00:03:30] about predictive index. Predictive index is a behavioral assessment that looks at a person's behavioral strengths. In terms of, what do they bring behaviorally to a company. In terms of, the behaviors that you'll see in that person.
Then from that, you can understand what motivates them, the motivating needs, better ways to communicate with them, better ways to coach and train them. Once you understand what their behavioral needs are [00:04:00] and wants are that way.
PI Midlantic is a consulting company based out of Annapolis. We're in Maryland, and Delaware, and Pennsylvania. Along with, Northern and Southern California. My job is to work with companies and consult with companies. Help them with predictive index and help them get better results using this behavioral assessment tool. To hire better, coach, train, and engage their employees in a more productive way to at the end of the day get better results.
Roy Barker: [00:04:30] Well, I think that not only your background but your product, it's a very good combination for the senior living sales and marketing teams today. So let's talk a little bit about taking the predictive index.
Can you kind of explain what that process is. If I ... excuse me. If I called you today and said, "You know what? I'm fixing to hire Joe or Sally. [00:05:00] I really would like to do the predictive index on them." What does that process look like?
Marty Ramseck: Yeah, it's a very simple process. It's a process of ... we send them out of ... everything's done online. We would basically email them a link to complete the predictive index. Generally speaking, it's a real short assessment.
That's one of the values of predictive index. It doesn't take the person who takes it a lot of time to do it, it takes about six minutes to complete. From that, we'll understand [00:05:30] their behavioral needs.
Predictive index measures four behavioral needs of a person. It measures their dominance, which is their drive to control or insert influence one's environment. It also measures their extroversion, which is drive to people and interacting with people. It measure patience, which is the drive for stability and familiarity with one's environment. It measures formality, which is the drive for detail and to do things perfectly.
In [00:06:00] each one of those drives, they have a high dominance, which is more a drive for taking challenges. Or a low dominance, which is more seeking harmony. In high extroversion, which is seeking people. Low extroversion, which is more task-focused.
High patience, which is more process-oriented. Low patience, they're more variety in terms of [inaudible 00:06:24] their tasks throughout the day. Then formality, you can determine how much detail they're into. How much [00:06:30] rules and processes they're looking at versus how much they're looking at more general guidelines. In terms of, how they like to be worked with.
Roy Barker: Yeah, and I think there's a fine line between being an overly aggressive salesperson versus being someone that knows how to pursue prospects and do thoughtful follow-up. Will the predictive index [00:07:00] kind of help separate those two individuals?
Marty Ramseck: Yeah, that's a great point. I think what we've seen ... What you see with predictive index is that in the Senior Living business, you're gonna find people that do well. Or high with extroversion, which means they connect very, very well with people.
They're low in patience, which means they're very results oriented. Their detailed, some detail, but not [00:07:30] over the top where you don't want really getting behind and falling love with the CRM system and doing that all day.
But the key you want to see in Senior Living that's probably changed most over the last 15 years is the dominance. Dominance is the drive for results, it's the drive for challenging, it's a drive to get people to take the next steps.
When I first started Senior Living back in 2002, you didn't need a lot of dominance in your Sales people because there was not as much competition, [00:08:00] there wasn't as much option. So you're looking for more of a ... really to serve the natural role of [inaudible 00:08:08]. A person that worked well with people, didn't push them too hard because there was not a lot of competition out there.
Today you see that dominance driver, needing more dominance, because there is more competition. You need to drive them a little bit more for the next steps. It's also the drive to control. Today you need somebody that really controls the Sales process. In terms [00:08:30] of, getting people to take the next steps and keeping themselves in control of what's happening next in the Sales process.
That is a key behavior that you want to see in your Salespeople. But, at the same time, they can't be over the top. In terms of, too controlling or too driven because you're gonna push people away.
But you have to kind of manage that a little bit where you do have somebody that can drive somebody to the next steps. Control the next steps to keep them looking at your Assisted Living or your Home Care. Based upon [00:09:00] keeping them in your Sales process.
Roy Barker: Okay, that's great. I do a lot of mystery shopping. I guess, I see both extremes as the ... There's the process that nobody is in control over that it seems like you are always having to run them down. Versus, the ones that they are just basically in your [00:09:30] face wanting you to sign up.
It's not that they really care about you, which kind of leads into the next part. I feel that you've gotta have the drive, you gotta have the organization, you have to know how to prospect.
You have to understand, not everybody is gonna be ready to make that decision today. Not everybody is gonna like you, your company, your community. You're gonna lose some people because of that. You have to be able to accept [00:10:00] the no's.
But I think another important quality is empathy. That is that we need empathy for the family, for the prospective resident. In the fact that, their stuff is not in their car. They're not gonna walk in, and you're gonna sign them up, and you're gonna move them in today.
It's a process we have to, like a farmer, you have to sew the seed, you have to maintain [00:10:30] it, and then you reap your harvest. Sometimes, I think especially in our world of instant gratification ...
I say, "Marty, are you ready? Are you ready? Here's a paper, let's sign up. If you don't, you're off my radar and I'm moving on." There are a lot of studies out there that show that it can take between eight to twelve touches during the Sales process in order to make a client. A higher dollar [00:11:00] sales, tend to be at the higher end of that.
So, will the Predictive Index kind of help us sort out this empathy factor? Somebody that's gonna be able to sit down and have a true conversation with Marty and his family. To find out what brought you in here today, are you a good fit?
I'm not scared to tell you that what we may not be the best fit for you, but I know some people [00:11:30] that I can help place you. Will the Predictive Index help us in that respect, as well?
Marty Ramseck: Yeah, it would help. Predictive Index does measure behaviorally how empathetic, behaviorally, a person is and their certain drives. That's kind of the extraversion drive. It's gonna be a lot more empathetic, a lot more caring.
So Predictive Index really does a good job of understanding how empathetic is. I think [inaudible 00:12:00] a [00:12:00] person really understanding the Sales process, also, and knowing a couple things.
Number one, that your community or your Home Care company, they're not for everyone, everyone is an opportunity. You have to understand who the right people are for you from that standpoint. Two, is coaching Salespeople to really work in the best interest of the customer. Are they really doing the right thing? Because that's really what they're judging that Salesperson on, is are you working in the best interest of the customer.
[00:12:30] Three, and as you brought up the point of the steps in the Sales process, of really understanding good ... What we call, buyer / seller alignment. Being with the seller, where they are at in the process. So, people [inaudible 00:12:43] and they're looking to move in asap, they have to do that and working with that person.
At the same time people are just generally beginning to look and beginning the process. But, I think where most Salespeople get themselves in trouble is, they're not aligned with the buyer. They're trying to close too soon or not enough of [00:13:00] that process. That really upsets the buyer.
But to be aligned, and take them through the steps, and kind of controlling those steps, but take them to the appropriate next steps in the Sales process. Knowing that this is going to take several steps to get them moved in or get them to become a client of your Home Care company, but be aligned with them in that process.
They'll generally get those people because you're aligned and it makes the Sales process go very smoothly for you and for the prospective [00:13:30] buyer.
But to your original question. Yeah, Predictive Index does measure empathy, it does measure how a person will interact with somebody. But also, I think, it's [inaudible 00:13:41] a Salesperson understanding good selling and understanding the Sales process. That it's gonna take steps and be aligned with them where they are at in that Sales process.
Roy Barker: Right. You bring up a good point about trying to meet the prospect where they're at. We see that a lot as well, that when you walk in, [00:14:00] they want to start at the beginning of time. Tell you what ... This is an apartment, you're gonna get to live here, we're gonna feed you.
What they don't understand a lot is that these ... Most, not everyone, but I would say that most prospects and their families have already checked out your community and your competition long before they come in.
That's why it's good to ask some general questions about [00:14:30] where they are in the search process, what has instigated this, why are you even out looking to try to find ... You know, where they are and how much research that they've done.
I think another big part of this process is ... Why I feel it's so important on this empathy is talking with families and prospects, is to gain information. Not only to see where they are in the process, if they're a good fit, [00:15:00] but you can also get good follow up information.
I'll be honest, a pet peeve of mine is when I'm trying to buy something. Taking my time and looking at different people, different companies, and you get the inevitable email. Like, "Hey, I'm just circling back with you." Or, "Are you ready to buy yet?"
That's one thing that when I get to coach Sales [00:15:30] Professionals, it's very important to have these front end conversations. Because you find out what are some of the interests, what's going on in the lives of the prospects of family members.
Because, when you reach out to them in follow up, if you're communicating even with the family member ... If they are into gardening, maybe you start off with, "All this rain we've been having has probably been good for your garden."
Or [00:16:00] if you know that the prospect has been maybe in and out of the hospital, you can ask about their condition, how they're doing, are they back home ... It just gives you a lot more ammunition to have, what I would call, thoughtful follow up and try to build the true relationship.
Marty Ramseck: Yeah, I think another important point is, really understanding what their needs are and what they're going through. It could be a person who just lost [00:16:30] a partner after 60 years of marriage and there's a pretty lot of depression there. What do we do to get that person back to living a quality of life again. All those things play a huge role.
So understanding needs in this Sale is hugely important. That's why I think questioning skills, those empathy skills are huge. Because, I need to know what their needs are, I need to know what their running into so I can adapt my [00:17:00] presentation to their needs and what's important to them. Not just do a generic type of presentation of my community or my Home Care company. But really adapting to their needs and what's important to them.
Roy Barker: Right. A thought that just occurred to me was, we think of performing a Predictive Index on maybe the Sales and the Marketing Manager of a community so we understand [00:17:30] more about them. But does this work the other way, too?
Is this good to maybe have the Regional Managers, or the National Sales Managers, or upstream? Have them to complete the PI, as well. So not only do they know how to communicate with their subordinates, but the subordinates may learn about how to communicate and what their [00:18:00] managers are needing, as well.
Marty Ramseck: Yeah, that's a great point to rise. Anybody in the organization has an opportunity to complete the Predictive Index is ... all it does is help them understand that person better, how to motivate with them, and how to communicate.
So, Predictive Index, it's a great tool if I'm the manager. I can understand, number one, am I making the right hire based upon their PI. But once their onboard, am I managing them, or am I coaching them, or [00:18:30] am I communicating with them effectively. But at the same time, being transparent.
If I'm the manager and my people know my PI, they know how to best communicate with me, how to best interact with me. It's also great for peers. How to best work with somebody, how to best communicate with them. Some people are more voice communication, some people more texting, so how do we best communicate with each other.
It really takes out why somebody [00:19:00] acts the way they do. Have you ever been in a work relationship where you're frustrated and you say, why does this person act the way they do. Well, PI lets you know that, PI lets you know why people act the way they do.
Knowing that behavior is hardwired in you. Kind of like your eye color, it's kind of given to you. Like, how tall you are, it's kind of ... Those things you really can't change. Behaviorally, we really can't change our behavior.
We can adapt, we can kind of ... When we [00:19:30] understand ourselves, we can adapt our behavior, but we really can't change it. Knowing that, how do we best work together and bring out each others strengths to create a better team. Not try to change somebody or just be frustrated with somebody on how they act the way they do.
Roy Barker: Yeah. I think it's good to emphasize that while we've talked a lot about the hiring process and using the Predictive Index during that. It's also important for existing teams because [00:20:00] I think it would not only help the communication, but it might also help in you to sharpen that communication in both directions.
Marty Ramseck: Exactly right, exactly right. Again, playing to each others strengths. Lebron James is a great basketball player, but he's probably not a great Scientist. Or Einstein is a great Scientist, but probably was not a great basketball player.
It doesn't make them bad, it just understands [00:20:30] what strengths you bring to the party and let's just play on those strengths to create the best team possible.
Roy Barker: That's correct, correct. That's all we're trying to do. Not to get anybody ... put anybody in a bad light or in a bad way. But this is just a tool that can benefit not only management, but also the sales teams.
As we talk this through further, I would assume that [00:21:00] it would probably be good to get the whole community onboard. At least the Administration, with like the Executive Director, the Director of Nursing, also the Sales Team because they all have to interact with each other daily.
So this would help them communicate at the community level very well with each other. Then, there's just so many moving parts [00:21:30] with people moving in, people moving out. Just all the fires that come up during the day of a ... The day in the life of a Senior Living community.
Marty Ramseck: What it really is, Roy, it's a best sent ... Think about what is your most ... In Senior Living, what is your most important thing that you have? That's your people, right. If you have great people, you're gonna be successful. If you have [00:22:00] great care givers, you're gonna be successful. If you have great nurses, you're gonna be successful. You gotta have a great Sales team to be successful and a great Executive Director.
Predictive Index helps you predict that, so it's really an investment in your most important that you have, your people. Making sure that you're making your people decisions correctly. Building a better job with making sure you get the right people on the bus. But secondarily, making sure that once they're on the bus that I'm engaging them, I'm motivating them, that they're [00:22:30] bringing their best. They do what they do best every day to create a different experience and great experience for people living in your community or the people who are working with Home Care from that standpoint.
So, it's a tool to really make sure that you're getting the best people on the bus. That they're what your community needs are behaviorally. Then once they're on, I'm doing a great job in terms of engaging them and working with them.
I think that Gallop did a survey a few years ago that seven out of ten American workers are not engaged, in terms of [00:23:00] what they're doing. They're not engaged in what they're doing on a daily basis. [inaudible 00:23:05] helps with better engagement. Helps you understand what that person's gonna bring behaviorally to your company.
Then from there, how can I best engage with them to let them do what they do best every day. When you do that, you're gonna have more of an engaged employee and at the end of the day, you get better results.
Roy Barker: Yeah. That statistic that you quoted, it's unbelievable that we have [00:23:30] employees walking around like zombies and companies that aren't engaged. That also relates to the ... about the same number are passively seeking other jobs.
They may not be actively looking every day, but if someone approached them with another offer, they would be willing to listen. So here again, that relates back to the employee retention and how important it is to hang on to [00:24:00] our best players.
So, we talked a little bit about how it would help teams communicate and managers communicate, both up and down the line. But let's say, I could put on my best suit, comb my hair, brush my teeth. Come in and sit down in front of the Hiring Manager and for 30 or 45 minutes, I can talk a good game. [00:24:30] I can really have a good attitude, "I love Seniors, I love Selling, I love getting on the phone making cold calls, or following up."
I could say all the right things but I'm not that person. So can Predictive Index kind of help not only weed out those skills, but also the attitude. That's the one thing [00:25:00] that I talk a little bit about, as well. That when you hire, you really want to hire for attitude because you can teach a lot of skills.
The other part of that is attitude is like a virus. You have to look at people and think, do I want other people catching this attitude. So, will the PI help on the attitude.
Marty Ramseck: It won't be as much [00:25:30] attitude as much as some of the other examples you used, Roy. In terms of empathy, in terms of follow up, that type of thing. Attitude a lot of times is more, we choose our attitude every day. We choose to get up and be positive today. Or we choose to get up and be negative today. Those are more choices.
But the one thing where we go back to attitude is, if I'm doing what I do best every day, I'm gonna be more excited about my job. So, to your point about when a person comes in to interview. [00:26:00] If I have their Predictive Index in front of me, I understand behaviorally how they are hardwired, which allows me to ask behavioral based questions to see if they've actually done these behaviors that we're looking for in the past or can he do those.
If it's follow up on, I'm asking questions of give me examples of when you had a follow up system, and your follow up system that you've used in previous opportunities that you had in career. Or if [00:26:30] we need strong closing skills, give me examples of how you close an indecisive client or prospect.
So when we have a Predictive Index, I can behaviorally interview somebody to really see if I could pull off the behaviors that we're actually giving that person. Versus, a person telling me everything that they can do. [inaudible 00:26:53] Predictive Index will kind of make you see if the person can really walk the talk.
Roy Barker: Okay. [00:27:00] Then, if you don't mind sharing just about how many of the PIs have been completed. I think from our talk the other day, that not only in general but probably for the Senior Living industry, y'all have a very good baseline for the different positions.
So when somebody does, in the hiring process, somebody does take the PI, y'all [00:27:30] will know how they fit in with the high performers in those positions that have already taken the PI, correct?
Marty Ramseck: Yeah. We work with a lot of Assisted Living companies. A lot of Home Care companies are our clients, so we have kind of a baseline of the different positions of what PI they would be looking for, for different positions.
But again, we want to treat every company individualistic. So what we do is kind of [00:28:00] a couple step process. Number one is, with PI we have what we call a job assessment, which is the people that are in the hiring of that particular position ... We usually recommend three to five people that have skin in the game for that hire.
Fill out a job assessment, which is really going in and checking off the behaviors they think that they need for that role. From that, PI always gives a pattern, in terms of what we're looking for. So that would give us a pattern from what the hiring managers think that they're [00:28:30] looking for.
Then, if they have top producers, we would go in and do a talent analytic on their top producers and find out what their top producers PI look like, in terms of the behaviors they're bringing. Then, we would compare that job assessment that people filled out with their top producers to look from consistencies.
From there, agree on this is the behaviors that we're looking for a Sales person in that community, for a nurse in that community, for an Executive Director. We'd agree on it. Just like you'd [00:29:00] agree on educational requirements, just like you'd agree on skill requirements. Value requirements, in terms of ethics and honesty.
Now you want to agree on what behaviors you're looking for each role for that particular company for each role that you have there. Based upon doing the job assessment, and looking at your top performers, and looking for consistencies to get a better target. In terms of who you want to hire for that role and get it right.
Roy Barker: Okay. Well, Marty, [00:29:30] we've covered a lot of ground today. I certainly do appreciate you taking time out of your day to come back and talk more Senior Living and Sales focus. Is there anything else that you'd like the audience to know about the PI? Or how the Predictive Index can help them and their teams before we go?
Marty Ramseck: Yeah. The only thing I would say is, I think in Senior Living in my experience is, where people make a lot of mistakes is they just [00:30:00] hire other people's problems. There's a lot of turnover in the industry and people kind of bounce around from company to company.
My experience has always been, I can teach ... especially, in Sales. I can teach somebody how to sell. Selling is a skill set, it takes some hard work to be really, really good at it, but I could teach somebody how to sell.
My thought process is if I can get the behavior right. If I've got the right behavior, and the right attitude, and right ethics. [00:30:30] If I've got that, passion for Seniors, and I've got the right behavior, I was gonna be successful. I have a loyalty with that person, because I'm teaching them how to sell.
So my recommendations to you is, not get in that game where you're just hiring other people's problems and people that are kind of bouncing around. But really get talent by hiring the right behaviors and teaching them how to sell, teach them how to do the job. Then I think you'll find a lot of success that way and have a lot of loyalty, [00:31:00] also, when it comes to that.
Roy Barker: Yeah. I think that's a very good point. Sometimes, we rely on a box that's checked that, I worked for X, Y, Z Senior Living, so it looks like I have experience. But like you said, maybe I was just somebody else's trouble.
Where the PI, the Predictive Index will help us get to the bottom of their skill set. Then, we can teach them the nuances of the Senior [00:31:30] Living industry that they need to know.
Marty Ramseck: Yeah. My thing, Roy, is if I'm a top producer, I've all this equity built with my company. So they're paying me fairly, I'm getting treated fairly, why would I ever want to leave? I have all the equity built in with this particular company.
So generally, [inaudible 00:31:48] people leaving, they're generally leaving because they're not performing where they should be if they're ... The only time I look at a top performer is if they're not being paid fairly or treated fairly. That's the only time I look at them. But in [00:32:00] most cases, people are leaving because they're not cutting it with that company.
That's why I would hire somebody ... Get the behaviors right, teach them how to sell. Then you'll not only have a great Salesperson, but they'll [inaudible 00:32:12] very loyal to you because you're the one that gave them the opportunity, you're the one that taught them how to sell.
Roy Barker: Right, right. All good points. Well, Marty, if you could tell the audience how that they could get a hold of you to get more information on the Predictive Index.
Marty Ramseck: Yeah. If you wanted to ... [00:32:30] my email is firstname.lastname@example.org. Or my telephone number is 949-545-8121. You can reach out either way to me or connect with me on LinkedIn. If you do that, I'd be more than happy to have you complete a Predictive Index, if you haven't completed one.
It's $200.00 value, but for listening to the Podcast and connecting with me, I would that for no charge for [00:33:00] you and have you take it. It takes about six minutes, then in about 10 / 15 minutes, we'd be going over your results and seeing how it could help you and / or your organization.
Roy Barker: Okay, great, Marty. Thanks for making that offer to the audience. I will also include your contact information in the show notes. Again, we want to thank Marty for being our guest today. Thanks, audience, for listening to the Senior Living Sales and Marketing Podcast.
Don't forget to download [00:33:30] and rate our program. It will help others find us easier. Remember, you can find us on iTunes, Stitcher, and Google Play. The website is www.seniorlivingsalesandmarketing.com. You can sign up for a newsletter to stay up with the latest Podcast whenever we put them out.
Thanks again for listening and until next time, wish you the most success in your business endeavors.